Leonardo Tissot

Mudhoney's Mark Arm talks about the band's new album, "Plastic Eternity", singing with Chris Cornell and Layne Staley, little (and big) dogs and more... Photo credit: Emily Rieman

This interview with Mudhoney singer Mark Arm was originally published on Urge!, in Portuguese. Below you can read it in its original form. The band's 11th album, Plastic Eternity, is out today (April 7th, 2023). You can listen to it here.

Tell me about the making of the new album, Plastic Eternity. I talked to Steve a few months before you guys got together to start working on it and he said he believed the process would be pretty quick, since you weren't able to play for a long time, because of the pandemic, and you guys had lots of ideas. Was that the case or not so much?

It was pretty much the case. We had some riffs from before the pandemic, and we were at a deadline, because Guy [Maddison, Mudhoney’s bass player] was going to move [to Australia]. We thought it was going to be in October 2021, but Australia was still shut down, so they decided just to stay in Seattle through the school year. So they didn't move until June of 2022, what made us push back the recording sessions that we had booked a couple of months, and that gave us a little more time to come up with more music and some lyrics. We only had four or five songs that were fully arranged, so a lot of it we threw together in the studio. Some of them didn't have words yet, we just recorded thinking they would be instrumentals. Like ‘Little Dogs’: we thought it was just going to be an instrumental. So that has a different structure, not like a verse chorus verse kind of structure.

To me, the lyrics are some of the highlights on this album. Digital Garbage and Morning in America both came out during the Trump years, so it was expected that you’d be a little more political, I think, and you had a lot of criticism towards technology, economy, environmental issues, society in general and so on. But I feel that you're still a little bit angry on this one — especially on songs like ‘Human Stock Capital’ and ‘Plasticity’. Can you please comment on what inspires you to write these days and how do you feel about the world and our future on this planet? Are you hopeful that things might get better someday or do you think we’re doomed at this point?

I don't have a strong opinion on whether we're doomed or not. We might be. Hopefully we're not. Hopefully we can get our shit together. I guess addressing those issues is just like, one more little voice trying to motivate people to move things in a good direction for humanity. I know it's a drop in the ocean, my voice. And I wouldn't say that some of those songs are angry, I think the root of it is frustration.

Yeah, I mean, you’re pissed off a little.

Yeah. Do you know the story behind ‘Human Stock Capital’? Did you have the concept, during the lockdown, of essential workers in Brazil? People who had to continue to go to work in dangerous conditions, just so that the middle class and the upper class could keep going. One of the things that the Trump Administration did during the lockdown was making sure the meat packing industry stayed open, and that industry… The workers are largely what they call ‘illegal immigrants’, you know? People without papers, people who are afraid to speak up for themselves, because they're afraid of getting deported. And they work, in normal times, in very dangerous conditions. They're side by side, in a small space, each person has a very sharp knife. People lose fingers and stuff in those jobs all the time. Some of the pork I have might have a little bit of finger in it. And to reassure the country, that economic advisor in the Trump Administration, Kevin Hassett, got on TV and said: ‘Our human capital stock is strong’. And I was like: ‘Who the fuck refers to workers as capital stock, you know?’. That's just so dehumanizing and disgusting that I made note of that. When Dan [Peters, Mudhoney’s drummer] showed us this riff, that was like basically a Southern California Punk song from the early 80s or whatever, I was like: ‘I have words for that’.

I feel like your lyrics are written as observations about the world, almost as a standup comedian who makes a lot of observations about current events and fill it with sarcastic remarks. Does that make sense to you? Do you get inspiration from comedians and people in other areas besides music?

That very much makes sense. Listen to George Carlin. There are some observations there that I've actually gone back and watched some of his stand up, where he's basically, like… ‘Save the Planet’. The planet's gonna be fine. I don't think I saw those George Carlin stand ups back when they came out, because I didn't have HBO. So it was kind of interesting to me, that the similar thought — that I was unaware of —, he'd already made that point. But I guess I was sort of ripping him off unintentionally.

You were borrowing a little bit, maybe.

I mean, there's borrowing in art that's basically… All art is really borrowing, and then trying to put your own point of view on it, I think.

And the sad thing is that his comedy doesn't get old. We're still having the same issues.

One of my favorite punk rock hardcore records of all time is Teaching you the Fear, by Really Red. That's a very smart, political record. Those guys were a little bit older than your average hardcore kid, at that point. I talked to Ronnie Bond [Really Red’s singer] years later, and MC5 came to Houston in the early 70s, and they hung out with them. So they're obviously politically aware, if they were hanging out with the MC5, and a lot of those themes, like police brutality and even supply chain issues, they're still existent, you know? It’s terrible. The fear you have when you make a record is it's gonna be dated. That's kind of what I fear about Digital Garbage, you know? Based on the lyrics, ‘oh, this is just going to be defined by the Trump years’. But I kind of feel some of those things have been going on beforehand. Some of them are newer, like all this stuff with social media, but that will continue on, unfortunately, I think.

Do you ever write lyrics before writing the music? For example, the song ‘Flush the Fascists’. I wouldn't say it's a spoken word piece, but it does feel to me that the music was made to accommodate the lyrics, almost as a soundtrack to what you are saying, rather than a more traditional song, with the metrics and everything. How was that one written?

I mean, usually the music comes first. With ‘Flush the Fascists’, there was just the beat. That rhythm [shakes his head]. I started thinking about that on a commute to work, and recorded it on my phone. I just put down a very basic thing, and then tried to think of what could be built up from there. So then there’s just that two note bass line — which is played by a synthesizer — and then I put up lyrics, and I tried to come up with a guitar part for it. In terms of songs, that's my one real contribution to the record. Luckily, everyone else… [laughs] …was willing to work with that.

But the other guys also had a lot of riffs and stuff.

Yeah. Dan wrote most of the music for ‘Human Stock Capital’, front to back. Also ‘Little Dogs’ and ‘One or Two’. He is always playing his acoustic guitar. He always does an open C tuning.

Yes, I was going to ask you specifically about this song, because it's not the usual Mudhoney sound. It's got a more clean, atmospheric vibe on the guitars. So it’s a Dan song?

Yeah, that's a Dan song. And I remember when he brought it to us, because he basically plays acoustic guitar. And he does more complicated chords than we do, when we play electric guitar. Like bar chords and whatnot. He does augmented chords and all that shit. Which kind of brings out better on an acoustic guitar, or a clean guitar. And we were thinking, ‘well, that kind of sounds like something like’... — I think Guy pointed out that it sounded a little like ‘Fearless’, the song on that Pink Floyd album Meddle, or maybe something off of Led Zeppelin III. Since that we established amongst ourselves that it was like a Pink Floyd's song, from that era. I tried to bring in that slide guitar from ‘One of These Days’. That's the third section of it. It's an homage to Pink Floyd before Dark Side of the Moon.

Cool. So, when I heard ‘Little Dogs’, I remembered a scene in the documentary movie Hype! where you and Steve are talking, and you say something like: ‘You sing about dogs, you sing about being sick, you get a shtick, it'll take you to the top’. I think it was Bruce Pavitt who said this to you originally, about how to make it as a grunge band. And now you are literally singing about dogs on the final track of this album. What's the story behind the song?

But not about being sick! It was supposed to be an instrumental [shows a picture of his dog Russell, on his cell phone].

That's Russell!

Yeah, that's Russell. We thought it was gonna be an instrumental, because it was such a busy guitar part. I was, like, ‘how do you even fucking sing over it?’. It wasn't, like, you're holding an E chord for a long time, and you could come up with a vocal melody over it. It's got its own melody to it. Listening to what we'd already recorded, some of the stuff had words and some of it didn't. And I had another recording session down the road, where vocals and overdubs are going to be added. And I was listening to that in the car, also, on my commute from work. And I guess I must have been thinking about Russell greeting me at the door when I got home, so I just started coming up with goofy things. I had to edit quite a lot, because initially it was sort of comparing little dogs to big dogs, but I'm fine with big dogs too. I threw out all this stuff, like, ‘oh, their poops are easier to pick up’ [laughs].

And is that a Farfisa that we can hear in the track? Is it the same one you used on Every Good Boy Deserves Fudge?

I don’t know if it is. It’s the one that's at Johnny's studio. He got a lot of stuff from Egg Studios. He has the board that used to be at Stax. He inherited a fair amount of equipment from Conrad [Uno, Every Good Boy Deserves Fudge producer and owner of Egg Studios], once Conrad closed his studio and moved to Arizona. I also want to point out the fact that my little fluffy white dog is a rescue. It's not like we went out and paid hundreds or thousands of dollars for a fluffy little dog. And we would never do that. He was taken out of an apartment where he lived with 44 other animals. My wife volunteers at the Seattle Animal Shelter.

Now, moving on to a few questions about your career in general, not only the new record, if you don’t mind: In 1992, Alice in Chains released the Sap EP, with the song ‘Right Turn’, in which you sing along with Layne Staley, Jerry Cantrell and Chris Cornell. What do you remember about the making of this song and the recordings? How was that experience for you?

I remember Jerry reaching out and asking if I wanted to do this. My first thought was: ‘whyyyy?’. Technically, both Layne and Chris Cornell are like superior singers. They have bigger range, they're probably better at hitting their notes than I am. But I guess they were happy enough to just let me do what I do on it. They didn't erase it!

Come on, it's a great song. So, in 2015 you performed in a Stooges tribute band with Duff McKagan, Mike McCready and Barrett Martin. Whose idea was that? Did you rehearse a lot or was it done like, in the moment?

I think that was Mike's idea. They wanted to do a fundraiser for KEXP [Seattle radio station], although I'm not sure how you raise funds with a free show. But it was a really cool event. We only played like six or seven songs. There's a lot of prep that went into it, they had to get permits to close down the streets, and get permission to do this thing on the roof of the Pike Place Market. Someone did a lot of work.

It sounds like you were really having fun doing it.

Oh yeah, it was great. I think we practiced for about two weeks. I can't remember how many rehearsals we had, but everyone was very familiar with the material.

Recently I had the chance to interview Evan Dando, who is actually living in Brazil now. And he mentioned a tour that you guys did together in 89, and how he never wanted to play after Mudhoney because your shows were very intense and crazy... He actually compared you guys to James Brown. Do you have any memories from this tour with The Lemonheads?

It was a couple of shows on the West Coast. I don't remember them clearly, because that was 1989, so that's 34 years ago. I don't know how it would be like James Brown. I didn't have a cape.

Well, he said it was like a mess, and it was crazy, and so good and amazing. He just had nice things to say about you guys.

That's awfully nice to hear. What brings him to Brazil?

Well, he's actually dating a Brazilian lady, and he's doing some kind of dental treatment here, because it's a lot cheaper. And he just says he loves it here, and he wants to move here now.

Yeah, I mean, Brazil is great. It's an awesome place. Did he go storm the capital? [laughs]

No, I hope not. So, Steve [Turner, Mudhoney’s guitarist] is about to release a new memoir. Have you read it yet?

Nope.

How do you feel about these rock stars books? Is there a chance that you write one someday?

I would have to make up a lot of shit, almost more of a fantasy book, to make my life interesting to other people. But I enjoy a good rock memoir. Crazy from the Heat, by David Lee Roth, is fantastic. I think that dates me a little bit. [laughs]

Didn’t you read the one by Mark Lanegan?

I did not, because I kind of heard it just sounded a little too depressing. I didn't understand why all these years later he would still harbor any kind of grudge to any former band member in the Screaming Trees. That just didn't make sense to me.

I heard that they made amends before his passing.

Yeah, but I mean… That isn't in fucking public. And that book is going to be there forever, or at least until it goes out of print. I don't think that's gonna make up for it.

So you have no plans in that regard?

No. Dan listened to the audiobook version of Lanegan’s book. The news afterwards was like: ‘I'm happy to report that he doesn't say anything bad about either of us’ [laughs]. You know, because Dan was in the Screaming Trees for a while.

Mudhoney has just reached its 35th year as a band. Do you have any regrets?

As far as the band's concerned, I don't think I have any regrets. Well, when we submitted ‘Run Shithead Run’ for the movie With Honors, we had an instrumental, and they said, ‘no, we want something with words’. And the placeholder song they put in the scene — the song that they really wanted — was EMF’s ‘Unbelievable’. And I'm like, ‘well, if you want something like EMF’s “Unbelievable”, just fucking get EMF’s “Unbelievable”’. Maybe that was too expensive, I don't know. But we had sort of this surfy instrumental, that was pretty cool. We submitted that, and they said, ‘no, we want words’. So I wrote ‘Run Shithead Run’, because it was a scene where the main character was running through the snow, figuring that they would just automatically choose the instrumental over a song called ‘Run Shithead Run’. But they used it, and they kind of buried it in the movie. The music supervisor who put that record together, who we'd worked with on a couple of previous albums, was like: ‘Well, that's it. I'm never working with Mudhoney again’. If there's any regret, it's that. But I think the story alone is kind of worth the regret.

What are your plans for the future as a band?

We plan to keep going. We only envision things a year ahead of time. I'm not someone who's planned well for retirement, or anything like that. So, you know, play shows here and there. More like do tours here and there, because we can't just do a show real quickly, with Guy being where he is.

What about Guy? He’s living in Australia now and I saw that you guys are starting the tour there next month. How do you think this will impact the future of the band?

Well, it makes things a little more difficult logistically, you know? Before any tour, we have to get together to rehearse. We're all flying down about a week before the tour, and we're gonna rehearse. By the time we land, that's two days lost, flying to Australia, just because of the time zone change and whatnot. I’m just sort of obsessed with this, because I had to finally buy the tickets. It was so expensive, and I kept putting it off, hoping they would go down, and they didn't go down. And before the US tour, Guy is gonna fly here and stay with friends for a week beforehand, and we're gonna rehearse and then embark on our tour.

Last one: Steve also told me that you guys would be back in Brazil when we got a new president. We already took care of that. So, when you guys coming?

Do you know André Barcinski? He's been in contact and trying to get us to Brazil at some point. It's just a matter of finding a time slot that works for all of us. It would be fantastic to get back to Brazil, because the audiences are always fucking incredible. I love the food and the shows are super fun.

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Evan Dando says he wants to move to Brazil for good | Photo credit: Tedesco Mídia

Evan Dando plays two sold-out gigs in São Paulo this weekend. I spoke with him about the concerts, and also Noel Gallagher, Eddie Vedder, living in Brazil and why a tour for the Come on Feel the Lemonheads 30th anniversary reissue is not in the cards.

This interview was originally published in Portuguese on Scream & Yell.

Once I had a dream where I interviewed you, but it didn't go very well... Please, don't make my dream come true, alright?

No way!

So, how's Brazil treating you?

Well, it must be treating me pretty well, if you had a dream about interviewing me, you know? [laughs] It's amazing, this place. I feel like I'm an honorary Brazilian. I feel really at home here. It's strange, it's like the same sort of friendly but tough atmosphere as Australia is. And it looks like Sydney. São Paulo looks like Sydney, if you blur your eyes a little bit. It really does. So this is my phase two in the Southern Hemisphere. I intend to move down here. I love it here. So there you go.

Yes, I was going to ask you about that. Do you plan to move here for good?

Yeah, you know? I'll probably have a place in the US as well. There's always my Pop's old house on Martha's Vineyard, if I want to go and hang out with my wonderful stepmother. So I have places I can go up there. My mom's house in Providence. I just want to buy a place up there too, but I'm buying one here first. I don't need to give too much away…

Did you bring all your instruments, your gear, everything...?

I bought more, and then I got more, and then I have way too many… But I love it. I didn't bring my Korg synthesizer — I have a mini one, instead. Like a mini ripping one. They're really nice. But the thing is, this is a musical environment. There's way enough stuff here already. You know, it's everywhere. My fiance, her dad is a musician.

Yeah, I know.

So there's all kinds of stuff here already. They have a Kawai piano, which is one of the best kinds. It’s really a great environment for me, and I really needed it. See, this girl saved my life. She really did. I was, you know, [shows his right arm] I got my final permanent track marks. I don't need to do that stuff anymore. And all I ever wanted was proof that I did it. I'm just glad I'm done with that shit. I finally saw the light. Something was about to crash on me. I was about to, you know… Something was about to happen, and I… Right in time, I got out of that.

Happy to hear it. So, you have always said you're a fan of Brazilian music. I saw some videos of you learning new stuff about our music with your wife's family, which is full of talented musicians. How's that experience going for you?

It’s a dream come true. I mean, I'm officially the luckiest, one of the luckiest people ever born. I really am a lucky person. You like to think that it's because you've been a good person, but it's definitely not that, because bad things happen to good people every day. But there's something vaguely magical about the whole thing which is — don't tell my shrink. I mean, magical thinking. I love it here and I always loved it here. When I come to Brazil, it's always been a special time and it's been changing me a lot, for the better. I think I'm naturally Brazilian. I'm trying to kiss ass as much as possible with that statement. [laughs]

We’re happy to have you. So, I can see in your social media that you’ve been spending a lot of time outdoors, around nature… Which reminds me of The Lemonheads’ song “The Outdoor Type”. Do you consider yourself the outdoor type nowadays?

Yeah, I lied about lying about it in the song. I am totally the outdoor type. Actually, Tom Morgan wrote that song, but I had to do it, you know?

Tell me about those shows you are playing in São Paulo this week. They're gonna happen on your birthday, is that right?

Actually, you know what? Tom Morgan's birthday is the third, and mine's the fourth [of March]. So, it's Tom Morgan and my birthday. I’m trying to get my girlfriend on the computer so we can do another show, just because they sold out quick and it’s a little space… Might do one more, but maybe we'll play it cool. Who knows?

Is it supposed to be some kind of birthday celebration or did you choose those dates by chance?

I play on my birthday when I book it myself, usually. I booked my Newcastle, England show on my birthday, and a lot of people, like 11,000 people came by. It was cool, it's a good way to exploit… You gotta exploit every little asset you have. It's just a fun celebration. It's interesting that it's the third and fourth. Well, the fifth is my grandfather, so we gotta do one on the fifth too.

What can we expect in terms of the setlist — hits, covers, any new songs?

I always play all the songs, you know? And I always just write down as many songs I can think of. You know, just a mix. Probably three or four Gram [Parsons], and three or four Townes [Van Zandt] songs, maybe a couple Lucinda Williams songs, and probably 25 of mine and Tom Morgan’s, sort of Lemonheads stuff, solo stuff. Definitely not going to shy away from the songs that people know. The third show, we're trying to set it up with the band. Maybe with Twinpines, because that was really fun. We did a gig, it was so much fun.

You have come to Brazil quite a few times in the 90s and in the 2000s. Any memories from those days?

I just want to apologize to Killing Flame. I think I got in an argument on the bus or something. We were playing with Killing Flame, this hardcore band. They were good. But anyway, all respect to Killing Flame.

The last releases by The Lemonheads have been the Varshons albums, right? You have always been very fond of doing covers. Do you see yourself more as a songwriter or an interpreter these days?

Songwriting is a funny thing, because you just have to work harder at it. You have to be there and wait for it. And a song is a funny thing, it's almost like an accident that just happens and it comes from somewhere else. I've been filling my life with all kinds of distractions, and I need to just let them come, you know? Because I know I can write songs. Jon Brion said something once. He said: ‘I wish everyone would just not put a record out for 10 years. And I was, like, ‘okay, I'm not just gonna do that, I'm gonna do two covers records with 10 years between them’. To compete for the ultimate slacker in music business. Because that's slack. There's a little bit of truth to it, unfortunately.

But do you plan to release a new Lemonheads album with new songs at some point?

Absolutely. I have a lot of the music together. I'm getting there. I really can't leave here without finishing all the composition.

It seems like you've covered everyone in music, from Christina Aguilera to Metallica. Is there anyone you tried to cover but it didn't work out, or someone you feel you're just not able to do it justice?

I would never do The Velvet Underground or The Stooges or The Modern Lovers. I probably have, but I would never do it on a record. I don't think I have because those are the triumvirate of the holy. And also The Ramones and Black Sabbath.

You’ve covered The Ramones.

Yeah, just live though. Our first step ever, we played ‘I Want to be Your Boyfriend’, you know? When we started, we were like: let's get into the most uncool thing of all. Punk rock was so uncool. And we started getting into it. And then there was hardcore punk, and it made me want to play music again. I was giving up on rock and roll completely. I stopped listening to rock and roll, just classical and jazz for a whole year. And I couldn't play Wes Montgomery, I couldn't play quick jazz guitar. I gave up. And then I saw Flipper in 1984 at The Channel, and there was a dead squirrel going around the pit. I was like: ‘this is for me’. I was like: ‘I could do that. I'm gonna do that with my friends’. So we started off trying to be a hardcore band. We opened for The Ramones in 86. It was amazing.

A few years ago I did an interview with Mike Watt about an album of his you've played on, Ball-Hog or Tugboat. You sing on a track called "Piss Bottle-Man", and you're also in the music video for that song. Just wanted to check with you if you remember something from those recordings. Any cool stories about it?

Eddie Vedder came down… When Mudhoney and The Lemonheads were on tour, co-headlining, in 89, in San Diego, his band Bad Radio was playing first that night. Mercifully enough, we were playing in the middle, because playing after Mudhoney in 1989 is not recommended for anybody. It was like: let me outta here, because they were so fucking good. They're like James Brown or something. It was, like, a mess. It was so good. It was just what was happening right then. So he came, he made a flyer. He's like: ‘Evan, Evan, I made a flyer for the gig. Check it out’. And apparently I dropped it and walked away, you know? So he came to the studio. And he took the lyrics to the song, and brought them halfway out to me at the mic and dropped’em on the ground, to get back at me. He was so cute. He's a nice guy. Those guys… My wife loves Pearl Jam. I mean, and they definitely… I like them. I'm getting into Soundgarden lately, though. They were really great. I kind of missed them, but I really missed Pearl Jam. I didn't like it, but I gotta respect it, you know? Negativity towards other bands brings nothing but stupidity to the person that does it. If I don't happen to like it, that's not their fault. But it's okay. He's a good singer and stuff. They were in Green River too, right? They always wanted to be an arena band. Mark Arm and Dan Peters — big, important people in my life — told me they always wanted to be an arena rock band. That's what they always wanted to do. So it's cool. They did it, right?

Around this time you have also written a song with Noel Gallagher, 'Purple Parallelogram', which was never officially released, right? Although we can hear it on YouTube. What do you remember about writing that tune and why was it never properly put out?

You know what's weird? We've written it in 94. I had forgotten about the thing. On Glastonbury 95, Noel was like: ‘Evan, you got to record “Purple Parallelogram”, you know?’. And I was like, it sounds like achy breaky heart. But he was like: ‘No, no, Evan. Come on’. So, at his insistence, I recorded it. And then he's like: ‘oh, he's trying to sell records off the back of my name’. I was like: ‘Noel, come on’. I guess the record company had to take it off. It's not that good. So that was a mess. But we have our secret track now, which every band should have that. ‘Oh, you ever heard that song that no one knows? The song that never came out?’. You gotta have one of those. I always think about it. Like I'm not allowed into New Zealand — that's kind of cool. That's a punk rock credential.

You're not allowed there?

Well, no. I mean, I got not let in once. I got detained for 30 hours and almost sent to jail in New Zealand, because of my crazy ass girlfriend [not his current girlfriend]. And I was wearing one shoe also, when I walked in to try to get to the country. I think it was also at that time Trump was being all funny, and it was almost like tit for tat. If there's a question about it, fucking don't let him in. I think it was all about Donald Trump, but we didn't help it either. My girlfriend forgot she had a little bit of speed in it. We're coming from a week of Gonzo partying in Melbourne, we just thought ‘we'll be fine’. But we weren't fine.

What about recording with Rick James on Come On Feel the Lemonheads? What do you remember from that experience and hanging out with him? Did you guys get in trouble?

The whole three weeks or something he was there, every day he was recording and his girlfriend and baby were there. Rick was great, you know? He's obviously lost his mind [he went to jail for kidnapping]. But Rick James, he was a good boy. He was AWOL from the U.S. Navy, I think, or Army. And he joined a band with Neil Young. The Mynah Birds on Motown, real young, in Toronto. Before Buffalo Springfield. So that was kind of our reference point. He was a super nice guy, a really big heart, really great guy.

Any plans to celebrate the 30th anniversary of Come On Feel the Lemonheads this year?

That would be pushing it a little. No plans.

No reissue or anything?

Oh yeah, all that. But I don't know. I think I've done my last reissue tour. I can't do it anymore. I gotta go forward. For the sake of everybody and myself. It's fun, it's dangerous, a little bit satanic after a while. ‘Let's live out the old days, and actually play the record in order…’ Whatever. There's nothing wrong with it, it's entertainment. I will do it if I have to. I don't know.

Do you hear your influence in music today?

I hear the Lemonheads in Green Day. But it's not me. They're fans of Ben, the other singer in the first three records. There's a bunch of bands that say that they really like me. The Killers are big fans. Bruce Springsteen's a fan, but it was… He used to play my song before his sets.

Courtney Barnett, maybe?

Courtney Barnett covered one of my songs. We toured with Courtney Barnett, and we had such fun. She's the best, wonderful woman. I love Kurt Vile too. Dude, when I met him we played “Frying Pan”, the Victoria Williams song. What a cute kid.

Any final messages for the people who are coming to your shows?

Keep a good head and always carry a light bulb!

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Guitarist Mike Johnson reminisces about his solo career, his days in Dinosaur Jr. and his collaborations with Mark Lanegan | Photo credit: Melanie Nissen

A translation of this interview was originally published in Portuguese on Scream & Yell. Below you can read it in its original form.

How did you start out in music? Do you come from a musical family or were you the first one to pick up an instrument?

Well, kind of. My brother played guitar. I have an older brother, seven years older than me, and he played guitar when I was growing up. When I was leaving to go to university, leaving my hometown and moving to a college town [Eugene, Oregon] which is a couple hours away, my birthday that year my parents gave me a guitar — an acoustic guitar. That just kind of got me started, I guess. I taught myself to play guitar with the Mel Bay chord book, which most people, back in the day, learned how to play guitar with. That and listening to records, and playing along with, you know, Velvet Underground.

How old were you back then?

I was 17, 18, something like that. I think 18. So I didn't play as a youngster, I’m kind of a late starter.

But you were already listening to bands and interested in music at the time.

Oh yeah, I was a record fanatic, a music fanatic. I was deeply immersed in anything I could find. I come from a real small town [Grants Pass, Oregon] and we had, like, two record stores there at the time. I'd look out for anything weird or different. I was into Creem Magazine, it was the thing back then, early 80s, late 70s. I was really into punk rock, but I was into learning where that came from. I was really into pre-punk, finding out about Velvet Underground, The Stooges, New York Dolls, stuff like that.

Was Snakepit your first band? Can you tell us a little about the band's history — how did it start, the albums you put out (cassette only, right?)...?

Like I said, I had that guitar and went to college and lived in the dorms, which is normal for your first year. And I met a guy named Al Larson, who was in the dorm next door. I'd see him around and we hit it off talking about that kind of music. Stuff like The Velvet Underground, The Modern Lovers, bands like that. And some contemporary bands, like Dream Syndicate, and some punk rock bands as well. My first year I knew him, and he had a band called Snakepit. He was in two bands, one band he played bass in, called Cargo Cult, and the other was Snakepit, that he had started with his friend, Robert Christie. So, you know, yada yada, a year later, my second year of college, I moved to an apartment. I was like, ‘hey, you should come over to my apartment, have coffee and stuff’. One day he did, and he saw my guitar, which he didn't know I played. He's like: ‘what, you play guitar?’. I was like, ‘yeah, I kind of wrote a couple songs and stuff’. And we started talking. He was like: ‘dude, you should join my band’. I didn't know he had a band yet, until that moment. The entire idea of having a band seemed completely beyond me. I was like: ‘hell, yeah!’. Because he didn't like the way the band was going with the guitar player that was in it at the time, and we were both into Velvet Underground type stuff, and also bands like Television, The Modern Lovers etc. So I ended up abandoning the apartment I had, my little studio apartment, and moved in with him and his friend Robert Christie, who was the drummer in the band. And the three of us lived together. Doing an album was impossible, so we made a cassette tape and released it ourselves, with a little cover and stuff. That was probably 1985. A little bit after that Al quit and moved out of town, and we got another guy and Billy Karen to play guitar. Our friend Laura McDougall started playing bass. So we had a lot of lineup changes. Anyway, we did another cassette in 86, probably, and then we finally did a 7”, which was a big deal. In our town, nobody did that, even though we had a very vibrant music scene. But doing a record seemed impossible at that time. Eventually we broke up [around 1990]. The sound of the band was very much like other bands at the time, I guess kind of a college rock and punk rock crossover. We wanted to be like The Wipers, but we didn't really sound that way.

Snakepit in 1987. Photo credit: Kathleen Molly

Did you join Dinosaur Jr. right after leaving Snakepit or did you have any other musical projects in between those two?

During the Snakepit period, that's when I met the Screaming Trees. They came through Eugene and we set up a gig for them. Actually, it was a gig for three bands, Beat Happening, Girl Trouble and the Trees. I think Girl Trouble couldn't play, so we elbowed our way onto the gig. So, that gig happened and the Screaming Trees stayed at our house. Mark and I hit it off and we struck up a friendship around music. We were both into some kind of off the beaten path stuff, at least to rockers, at the time. We were both more into old blues and folk records. Then he called me about doing his solo record, in 88 or so. He asked me if I'd play guitar and I was, you know, ‘hell, yes’. And that's while Snakepit was still going. But then we broke up and Mark was like: ‘you should move to Seattle, and we'll do another record too’, you know? So, playing with Mark became my main thing when I moved to Seattle. That was all I had. I didn't have a job, or money, or anything. And I moved up there and then that was happening, somehow. The people I moved in with were friends with J. He was staying there once, and we kind of met. We didn't really, but then he ended up calling me about playing in Dino. Whatever happened with J and Lou and that whole thing, I didn't know anything about that at the time. I listened to their vinyl records… After Lou, I don't remember who did it first. Donna Dresch, I think, played bass with them, and then it was Van Conner. Anyway, I got the call, and I was like — I didn't really want to join Dinosaur, but it was obviously the right thing to do. It seemed weird to me, at the time, because I wasn't a bass player, and they were over in Massachusetts. But that happened concurrently with Mark's second album being recorded.

Mike Johnson and Mark Lanegan in 1988. Photo credit: Kathleen Molly

So you joined the band merely on your friendship with J?

We weren't friends yet. We didn't really know each other. I was good friends with the Jasper sisters, Maura and Megan Jasper. I don't know what the true story is of why he asked me to join, because right after Mark died, I had a long conversation with Van Conner, and Van told me it was him that put it in J's ear: ‘you should ask Johnson to play bass’. Because Van was going back to the Trees. But I'd never heard that story before, so I don't know. All I know is, one night, hanging around at the house with Maura and Megan, I think it was Maura who was talking to J on the phone, and she was like: ‘J's gonna ask you to join the band’, and she gives me the phone. I hadn't really even ever talked to the guy before, he'd stayed at the house once, and we exchanged maybe two sentences. Anyway, he just asked me to come out to Massachusetts. Mark had encouraged me to do it. I didn't know what to do, so that just kind of happened.

Did you do any auditions or anything like that?

I didn't audition, though they were having auditions. They did this thing on MTV, where they were like — ‘Dinosaur Jr. needs a bass player’. It was a promotional thing. I remember I was staying at J's house, and he had a fax machine. He showed me all the people who were faxing in their CVs, their resumes or something. I was like — ‘what the fuck is this?’. As far as I knew, I thought I had the gig. And I did, but this is really weird. And J knew I didn't play bass, and I told him: ‘dude, I don't play bass’. And he's like — and the quote is —: ‘it's two less strings’.

You joined the band around the Green Mind (1991) tour. How was it, you know, being part of that band in those days, and trying to find your space in a band that, at that point, was already together for a few years?

Yeah, it was straight in, it was pretty quick. I really didn't know what I was doing. It was weird, I did not really feel like I belonged at all. They seemed like normal guys to me, you know? But I didn't really think about what it really entailed, and once I got out there to Western Mass, it was different. I mean, people seemed a little different. I just tried to fake it to make it, you know? I didn't know what the fuck I was doing, and I think it shows in some things. Thankfully there were some cool people around that kept me normal-ish, at the time. But it was not an easy situation, it was bizarre. I didn't realize at the time that there was this weird history and these weird personality cults around the band, and stuff that just didn't resonate with me. People acted kind of weird, and I didn't know why.

In the documentary Freakscene: The Story of Dinosaur Jr. Murph tells the story of his departure from the band, after the Where You Been (1993) tour. He says he told J that he was quitting and J replied ‘ok, if you're not having fun anymore…’. And then Murph just says: ‘Fun? This band was never fun’. Was that your experience in Dino as well?

(Laughs) Well, I had some fun. But I remember that time, and it seemed different than it does to me now. I remember when Murph quit. J called me up to tell me the news. I think it was harder for J to do it than… I think he wanted Murph to quit, because Murph was clearly miserable. He wasn't having fun. I mean, for me, it was different. For those guys, they started the band together. The thing with me is like, I was kind of just a hired gun. I always thought Murph and I got along, and I thought, you know, I guess we were extremely different people. Things went pretty smoothly, doing the Where You Been record, we got along pretty well. I guess it was the touring for that album that really… We all hated doing Lollapalooza. That was like two months of hell. And I think Murph really hated it, you know? We all hated it, I guess. It's one thing to do a lot of festivals in Europe and stuff, while you're doing your own tour. But when you're doing just a tour that is strictly a festival, that you're just a part of, and it's not really your own thing, and it's the same thing every day, out in a field that isn't in a town, so you can't really walk around, and go any place or get away from people… You're just in a trailer, every day, waiting to go do your thing, and the only release you have all day is your 40 minutes of playing on stage, in the middle of the day. It just isn't conducive to what rock music should be, I think. It's just a big corporate circus, there's nothing organically musical or rock about it. It just kind of sucks. I don't know other people's experience, but that's just me, you know? All of us felt that way, I think, to one degree or another at the time.

Last year I did an interview with Phillip Reichenheim, who is the director of Freakscene: The Story of Dinosaur Jr. — and also J's brother-in-law. I asked him why you were not in the film, and he told me that he tried to reach out but never heard back from you. Any comments on this?

He did get a hold of me in 2009 or something. I remember because we had just moved to the town we live in now. I've gone back and forth with him and he made it sound like we were going to do something. He was like: ‘okay, we'll film some interviews’. And then I didn't hear back from him, ever. It was like radio silence. Three or four years later I started getting these emails, I was just like: ‘this isn't serious’. This was gonna happen four years ago, then I didn't hear from him, now I'm supposed to do this. I was just, ‘yeah, whatever’.

Yeah, it took him 10 years or so to finish the film.

I blew it off. I shouldn't have. I mean, it was rude. I blew it off. My bad. Actually, I wanted to speak. But whatever. Also, since the band got back together, I don't really feel like… I don't know, I never heard a word from anybody ever again. It's just weird. I just kind of erased that part of my life. I feel like my participation in the band is not something they like to talk about, like it's not cool or I wasn't the cool guy or something.

At the same time you were in Dinosaur Jr., you were working with Mark Lanegan on his solo albums. Let’s talk about the first one, The Winding Sheet (1990). Mark tells in his book, Sing Backwards and Weep, that he got some advance money from Sub Pop to make a solo album. In order to do that, he had to learn how to play the guitar. He says he wrote songs in a "cave man style". Tracks like "Woe", from "The Winding Sheet", are played by him solo. He's also credited with playing guitar on tracks from Whiskey for the Holy Ghost (1994). How much of a challenge was it for you to perfect those songs and create arrangements for them and properly record them and so on?

When he made the first record, he had about five chords, I think. His guitar playing always remained at ‘cave man style’, but he always had a really good instinctual knowledge of music and how it works. And he was obviously a brilliant singer and songwriter. He was able to write a song off of the same three chords, and write something completely different and unique. I think he was insecure about where he was at, at the time, that's why he always tells that story about how he wanted me to write intros and middle parts, to make it seem like they were real songs. I'm a pretty primitive guitar player myself, I am completely self-taught. Maybe I had a little more facility at it than Mark did, but it was a joint process of making the songs into something else. It was a great process. It was really enjoyable, to be honest.

The recordings of Whiskey for the Holy Ghost were marked with a story that's well-known about Mark getting frustrated over them and actually trying to throw tapes in a river, with Jack Endino stopping him from doing it. Were you there when this happened? What do you remember from this situation?

I don't know if I was there. I'm surprised that I wasn't, because I was there during the whole thing. That album took three years to make, it had a lot of ups and downs. Mark likes to tell certain stories over and over again, that were maybe not as important to the making of the album as he made it out to be. It did become a nightmare, and for him particularly, he always would hear things that no one else could hear, usually relating to how his voice fit in the mix. Maybe that’s what that was. But specifically I don't remember that. I do remember Jack Endino turning to me while we were doing sessions and he started telling me the story about the last night Reciprocal was open as a studio. He said: 'we did 16 hours, man’. And I was, like, ‘yeah, dude, I was there. You were really paying attention, weren't you?’. There were like six different engineers, I think. It started at Ironwood with Terry Date. He's mostly known for working with that metal band… The one that did Cowboys from Hell, what is the name of them?

Pantera.

Yes, Pantera. Thank you. We started to make a fully acoustic album with him. It was just going to be Astral Weeks-inspired, and it was really going great. There's a video somebody has put out on YouTube, that says it's the demos for the album, and that's not what that is. It's the first sessions we did with Terry Date. We spent a week or so, and Mark had quite a few songs. It was just me playing guitar and this guy Phil Sparks, this jazz bass player, playing bass — and some rhythm, I think maybe Tad Doyle did it. It was going great. And then Sub Pop ran out of money, and it bounced a check to pay for the studio. They pulled us out of the studio, and it was really deflating. We had high hopes and things were really going well, it sounded incredible. Everything changed after that, because then the Trees had to go on tour for Uncle Anesthesia, and they totaled their van, and that was, like, a death-defying incident that caused Mark to start drinking again, which led to him start doing drugs later. Everything just got crazy after that, and that's when we could only go into the studio when we were both in Seattle. We would get together and do a session for two or three songs. We did one with Ed Brooks, with Dan Peters playing drums, then a session with Mark Pickerel on drums and Jack Endino engineering, then we did some sessions with John — or maybe he just did the mixing. It was just the same thing over and over again, and then we tried to mix it like two or three times. He was always going back to Sub Pop for money, and the money was just going to dope at that point. Then he had some session to do in New York, and he was like: ‘dude, you gotta come down to the studio’. I'm like: ‘what am I going to do? I've done like 100 guitar tracks, bass tracks, organ tracks, and harmonica tracks’. Finally J went down with our friend, Kurt Fedora. They went to the studio and Mark would always tell the story that I had quit on him, which I didn't. I just was like: ‘dude, the record is done. You need to finish it’. I was just trying to get him to finish the goddamn record, which he did after that.

When you and Mark made Scraps at Midnight (1998), I believe it was the first record in which he was clean, or at least the first one he made after leaving rehab. Was it any different to work with him on this record, considering he had quit doing drugs at this point? Did you feel he was a different person by then, or not so much?

It was different. It was enjoyable. We collaborated more on songwriting on that one. Mark seemed more like he was just getting back to learning how to write and be himself. It was really enjoyable. I was in a darker spot in my life, at the time. I was kind of down the road of alcoholism, at that point. I dried out for doing the record, and it went pretty well. It was a good atmosphere, it was refreshing. And we kind of got back to being friends again. It was a shorter process too. We just got together, wrote the songs, went to the studio down in the desert and it was done.

He also says in his book that he had a half million dollars debt with the IRS because of Mad Season royalty checks he never paid taxes for. So, he did the next few records as a way to pay his debts. Did this influence Scraps at Midnight and I'll Take Care of You (1999) in any way? I mean, did you feel any pressure to record and put out those albums because of the financial situation he was in at the time?

No, I didn't. That's the first I had ever heard of that, he never mentioned it. Well, he had told me the story of that, I don't know if that was specifically why but I guess at the time he had to get out from under some stuff. Maybe that's why he didn't pay me worth a shit (laughs). But I mean, musically it was done for the right reasons. It was artistically pure enough, it didn't seem like we were trying to cash a check or anything. It was a good atmosphere for making music.

After working on Field Songs with Mark in 2001, and recording one track on his next record, Bubblegum (2004), you worked with him again on Imitations (2013), which was a kind of follow-up to I'll Take Care of You. How was it to come and work with him again after almost a decade?

We had been in contact after Field Songs. We did the tour and I was the best man at his first wedding. But after that, he had joined the Queens of the Stone Age for real. That's when he started having more drug problems again and we lost contact. Imitations came out of the blue. I had moved over here (France), and we were still in contact all the time, but then I didn't hear from him for four or five years, I guess. Out of nowhere he emailed me and asked me if I wanted to be involved with doing this record, another covers record. I said ‘sure’, but I wasn’t really playing as much. He told me there would be other guitar players. I wasn't the main guy on this one, though. Jeff Fielder did most of the guitars, my role was more of vibe checking the thing, and contributing a little here and there. I really wasn't as involved as I was on those first five records that we did together, where I co-produced. At one point I was like: ‘dude, you don't need me’. But he was like: ‘I just want your presence, just want you to be here’. And I did. We had fun, we hadn't hung out in years. We had some laughs and some good times. But it wasn't the same at all. It was still cool to do it. I was glad he asked me.

Did you have any other projects in mind by the time he passed away last year?

No. I wish, you know? We had been in contact again, though, thankfully. I had heard about his Covid ordeal and emailed him, and told him I was glad that he made it through that. I was shocked and devastated when I heard that he was gone. We didn't have any plans and really talked about music that much. Though he had, at one point, he did ask me to send him any demos and music scraps that I had. And I did, but he didn't end up using anything.

Around the same time you were in Dinosaur Jr. and making records with Mark Lanegan, you released your first record, Where Am I?, which you also made with Jack Endino. And in terms of style, I believe it inhabits the same zone as the work you did with Lanegan. What are your impressions and memories from making that album?

That was almost done as a demo. I had finally started to write songs again, which I had trouble doing when I first moved to Seattle — I kind of hit a dry spot, but I had stuff laying around. I had done a demo — with J, actually, playing drums, and Kurt Fedora playing bass. And I started playing with Barrett Martin on bass and my friend David Kruger playing violin. I just used my own money to pay for the studio and got Jack to do it — I guess because of meeting him through Lanegan. We spent three days or something doing it. It was very quick and it was kind of a demo, to try and see if I could get somebody to put it out. In the meantime, my friend Chris Takino started his label, Up Records — he was my roommate at the time. And he started the label because he had friends who were making music and he couldn't get Sub Pop to release their stuff — he kind of had a connection at Sub Pop, but they didn't want to put out Built to Spill, or my records, or Violent Green. So that's how that got made. It was very quick, it was really meant to be more of a demo. It's almost short enough to be an EP.

Mike Johnson in 1998. Photo credit: Stanford Wilson

I'm a big fan of What Would You Do (2002), your fourth record. And I think that listening to this record, one can fully realize that the sound in Mark Lanegan's records have a lot of your influence and input, because — and I say this as a compliment — this sounds like it could have been a Mark Lanegan record in a way. Or maybe the Lanegan records should actually be credited to both of you guys as a duo, you know? What are your thoughts on this?

I appreciate that. That's a big compliment. The sound on What Would You Do, there's something to that. When we were making I'll Take Care of You, I remember the recording of the song “Creeping Coastline of Lights”, a cover of The Leaving Trains song, and Mark really was enamored of the sound we were getting with that, that kind of style. I don't know how to describe it, but there’s a certain something about the sound, and that was kind of where my head was at when we were doing What Would You Do. That was the sound I was kind of thinking of. It's just my guitar sound at the time that I was enamored of. There is definitely a connection between that and Mark’s work. One big regret I have is that Mark was never involved in making my solo records as much as I would have liked. Though he was always my musical barometer. As my friend, I would always give him my demos and I would always run songs by him to hear, just to get what he would like. Because if he said something — like, he was into a song — I'd always be, like: ‘okay, I'll do that one’. That's his nod of approval, and he did that often for me.

Your last solo record was Gone Out Of Your Mind (2006) and the collection of outtakes The Uninvited (2016). Are you currently working on new stuff, do you have plans to release a new record or other music related stuff?

I wish I could. After doing Gone Out Of Your Mind, one of the reasons I moved was that I could not get any interest at all, and I couldn't get shows. I did a couple shows, nobody showed up. I took it as, ‘okay, there really is no audience for this’. My wife's from France, so we just moved to France, thinking maybe it would be a little better over here. It was better for our life, but not for my music. I'm certain there probably is music still in me, and I hope to come back at some point, but it's not happening right now.

That’s too bad. I hope you are able to return soon. Thanks for the interview. Any final messages?

I wanted to say sorry I didn't get back to you before. The day that I got your email was the same day that Van died, that was really devastating for me. I'm glad to get anybody actually paying attention to what I did, I'm humbled and I appreciate it.

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AFP Daniel Hakim / E-Learn Magazine

Reportagem sobre a Bettr Barista Coffee Academy, publicada na E-Learn Magazine. Esta matéria está disponível apenas em inglês e espanhol.

SINGAPORE - Having a successful business means more than just offering a great product, satisfying customers and making a good profit – at least this is true for Bettr Barista Coffee Academy, in Singapore. For the 6-year-old company, success also means promoting social equality and skills development of at-risk youth and marginalized women in the country, so they can successfully enter the job market and build a better life for themselves. Learn about this Blackboard customer’s award-winning initiative and how they are getting ready to use Blackboard’s digital learning environment.

Since 2011, Bettr Barista has been a leading provider of specialty coffee education in Singapore, offering local Workforce Skills Qualification (WSQ) certifications as well as international qualifications certified by the global Specialty Coffee Association.

But more than a successful business, the company founded by Pamela Chng is a socially driven entity, with a core mission of creating and amplifying positive impact across all of its business units. This started with an initial goal of improving the lives of marginalized women and at-risk youngsters in Singapore through its coffee academy. “I don’t think we would have started the company if we didn’t have a social purpose,” shares Chng.

While Bettr Barista Coffee Academy caters to coffee professionals, the Food & Beverage sector and coffee enthusiasts amongst the general public – with over 15 different courses available – there is also an adapted Holistic Training Program exclusively dedicated to the minorities mentioned above.

In the program, students not only learn everything related to becoming a coffee barista – details about the coffee brewing and roasting processes, customer service, among other skills – they are also introduced to psychological and physical training, by attending well-being workshops and yoga classes, for example.

“We prepare them to be productive, get a job, stay in that job, and in the process, start to create financial opportunities and independence to build a life for themselves,” Chng explains, adding that the idea is to use the entire coffee business to fund the program. The company also employs baristas in their five retail coffee bars in Singapore.

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Holistic Training Program: 3 Levels

Mental: Professional barista education, paid apprenticeship at Bettr Barista’s partner specialty cafes, as well as opportunities for international certifications through continued education.

Emotional: Emotional empowerment and life management skills to help with conflict management/resolution and confidence building.

Physical: Multi-dimension physical training including self-defense, yoga, outrigger canoeing and rock climbing to encourage socialization, teamwork and foster camaraderie.

This is how the Bettr concept – as well as the company name – came about: the idea of betterness, of nobody being perfect and constantly looking for ways to improve oneself. “To create a better life for ourselves and for other people,” Chng adds.

Empowering Women to Their Own Strength

Although the world is inhabited by 50% of women – 49.5% to be precisei –, gender equality still has a long way to go. In the workplace, among other areas of life, women have suffered continuous marginalization. The recent sexual harassment accusations in Hollywood are just one example of how powerful men have been getting away with crimes against women. But the reality in less glamorous places is even worse, considering living arrangements, low salaries, and social discrimination women third world countries go through.

Concerned over women’s struggles in Singapore, where there is a huge inequality scenario building up, Chng decided to take an approach that was focused on working emotional resilience as a solution to the problems faced by women today. “Women have tremendous emotional strength and power, but a lot of times they don’t use it in the right way. So I think it was something we needed to address, to change those emotions and behaviors to help themselves. And that goes for young people as well,” Chng says.

In a video available on Bettr Barista’s website, Shirley Ng, a Holistic Training Program graduate, recalls questioning her presence at the courses. “Because I didn’t love coffee,” she said. But as the six-month program went on, she realized it was not just about coffee – it was more than that. “I thought, since people are helping me, why not give myself a chance?”

Bettr Barista’s inclusive politics have been recognized beyond the women the company has helped. The company achieved its B Corporation certification – the first in Singapore – in 2013 and has held a “Best For The World (Community)” standing for two consecutive years since 2016. In 2017, the coffee academy received the President’s Challenge Social Enterprise of the Year award, one of the country’s most important recognitions. Along with the award, the company also received a US$ 37,600 cash prize by Singapore President Halimah Yacob.

How E-Learning Will Help Bettr Barista Train More People

Since 2011, over 4,000 people have been trained in specialty coffee through Bettr Barista’s 1,000 courses and workshops. Students have travelled from countries like Australia and Zimbabwe for their training, and Bettr Barista has also taken its expertise beyond Singapore to markets including Taiwan and Myanmar. Now, they want to expand to more countries in Southeast Asia such as Indonesia, Vietnam and Thailand, and e-learning will be a big ally in trying to achieve this goal.

The idea is to provide the more theoretical content about coffee making through distance classes, making it easier for people from other countries to learn the Bettr Barista techniques.

“This way, we can reach out to more people in the same amount of time, so that we can focus our face-to-face time on more practical, ‘hands on’ work,” says Chng. “With Blackboard’s products, we can do it in a more sustainable and cost-effective way, especially for farmers and young people. Bettr Barista’s e-learning courses will be available to students soon,” she adds.

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Bettr Barista Is a B Corp – What Does That Mean?

B Corps are for-profit companies that are not exclusively focused on profits, but care about social and environmental performance, accountability and transparency as well. There are over 2,100 of these companies in the world today – and Bettr Barista is one of them.

B Corps values:

1 - Good for Workers

2 - Good for the Community

3 - Good for the Environment

4 - Good for the Long Term

5 - Good to the Core

Learn more about them at www.bcorporation.net.

Moving Towards Sustainability in Every Step

“The thing we really love about working with coffee is it gives us the ability to try to be sustainable in every step,” Chng says. And that includes where their coffee comes from. Having direct relationships with farmers, Bettr Barista buys a great percentage of their coffee from them, ensuring they are being paid fairly so they can invest back into their business and further improve the quality of their offering. Bettr Barista also works with other B Corps that provide assistance to small farmers. However, when it is not possible to work directly with farmers, Bettr Barista partners up with some of the big coffee suppliers. “We are still not working 100% with truly sustainable coffees,” Chng admits. “But we sure are moving towards that.”

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Bettr Barista Results Since 2011 – Some Highlights:

Holistic Training Program

133 applications (66 accepted) across 17 completed intakes

43 students graduated (70%)

38 employed upon graduation (92%)

36 have remained employed (96%)

Accumulated salaries of over US$ 828,000 for graduates of its Holistic Training Program, supporting over 150 dependents

Professional Coffee Courses and Corporate Coffee Appreciation Workshops

More than 4,000 people from over 30 countries trained in professional (certified) coffee courses serving the food & beverage and specialty coffee industries, as well as secondary and tertiary schools, including special needs education institutions.

Over 3,500 people trained in external corporate coffee appreciation workshops

Conducted over 1,000 courses and workshops to date

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